TRANSscript from Out of the Pan 12 July 2020

In an effort to increase, even to some degree, the inclusiveness for Out of the Pan, especially in those times where connection is more vital then ever, I’m trying something out.

I’ve created a TRANSscript for the edition of Out of the Pan that went to air on 12 July as per
https://www.3cr.org.au/outofthepan/episode-202007121200/disclosure-amy-dyess-and-freedom-cf-responsibility.

For what it’s worth, the audio file was converted by a software program (Sonix) and then edited by a human.

While I’ve consulted with those with lived expertise in an effort to make this idea inclusive, I’m sure it will be a work in progress. I admit to anxiety as I want to be respectful of needs and have held off for some time; I do hope this can improve.

I want to give thanks to the awesome Sarah Ward for her inclusive Midsumma 2020 show which originally got my mind turning over about this idea. Thank you (as always) for your leadership and respect for diversity.

The file is in both PDF and text form below

https://sallygoldner.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/2020.07.12-Disclosure-Amy-Dyess-and-Freedom-of-Responsibility-final-3.pdf

Disclosure, Amy Dyess and freedom of responsibility

Presenter: Sally Goldner

Duration: 59min 49sec

Broadcast: Sunday, 12 July 2020 – 12:00 pm

Voice-over: Thanks for downloading a 3CR podcast. 3CR is an independent Community radio station based in Melbourne, Australia. We need your financial support to keep going go to www.3cr.gov.org.au for more information and to donate online now stay tuned for 3CR podcast.

Sally Goldner: Panoply, panorama, panpipe, pansy, a-ha – pansexual. Knowing no boundaries of sex or gender – sound interesting? Then join Sally on Sundays at noon for Out of the Pan. All those gender questions making you think too hard? Whether it’s transgender, bisexual, polyamorous, or beyond – we’ll throw those questions into the pan and cook up the answers for you. So [sic] go on, push that gender envelope only on 3CR 855AM digital, and 3cr.org.au.

[Leilani by Hoodoo Gurus]

Sally Goldner: 3CR 855AM, 3CR digital, 3cr.org.au and 3CR On Demand. Out of the Pan with Sally first broadcasting noon till one every Sunday afternoon. Thanks for your company. 3CR proudly broadcasts from the lands of the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin nation, and we pay respect to Elder’s past, present, and emerging, and acknowledge any Aboriginal or [sic] and/ or Torres Strait Islander peoples listening in to the show from any land on [sic] on and around the large part of this continent that it is and acknowledge that the land was stolen and never seeded and was, [sic] always will be Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander land.

Lots of ways to get in touch with the show. You can look, email in outofthepan855gmail.com. You can SMS 61456751215. You can tweet @salgoldsaidso – and that’s the bottom line – and you can look for the posts on Facebook on my page Sally Goldner, and on Out of the Pan 3CR 855 Melbourne, and remember any opinions expressed on the program are strictly my own and any coincidence to opinions and policies of organisations living or dead is pure coincidence or something like that. If you want to get in touch with the show yeah, they’re the best ways to do it. And of course, thanks to the crew from Out of the Blue. Diving deep for the marine news as they do every Sunday from 11:30 till noon. Always lots of informed opinion and varied opinion on marine environment issues.

There will be, probably, need for general content warnings for all the topics on the show today. Content warnings for emotional abuse and transphobia which will be mentioned but not in detailed description, [inaudible] transphobia, not so much detailed description, we’ll say moderate, low to moderate level but probably medium-ish level for the emotional abuse in my subjective opinion. So just uh, be warned; I’ll talk about the gist of the topic first and then if you are – as much as we love having your listenership on 3CR – if it is stressful, please look after yourself, particularly in these times. If anything is distressing, you can call QLife including [sic] switchboard in Victoria and Tasmania on 1800 184 527 – and if anything relates to Family Violence, remember the WithRespect for LGBTIQA+ people on 1800 542 847.

There’ll be three topics on the show today; in the next segment I’m going to talk about a story that hasn’t got a lot of coverage yet in Australia and it will link into some current issues, and that’s the story of Amy Dyess. This is, it’s disturbing but probably not surprising in a way to a lot of trans people. Amy is, well, by her own description, she is a prodigal butch, [cough] excuse me, also have a chat about how that links into a current issue, I won’t say anymore for now.

But also; [sic] want to look at the show disclosure and I want to do that straight, [sic] right off the bat so to speak; and have a chat about it. Now, there will be mentions of transphobia – and the discussion here is about transphobic comment in what I’ll call art/ fictional media – a topic that of course, has been a big one. Now disclosure is a commentary on all of the all of the various [sic], um sort of, um you know, sort of, it’s a movie or documentary if you like, on all the trans phobic media that has existed over the years – not so much in news media and gosh knows we need to talk about that and I will around the third segment linking into a few stories for today – but it’s also now the issue, and it’s a show that is on Netflix and you can sign up I think to Netflix for free for a month – but it talks about trans lives on screen, a 2020 American documentary film and it’s directed and produced by Sam Feeder; and it’s an in-depth look of Hollywood’s depiction of trans people on their stories of trans life and American culture, which does immediately, sort of pause to a limitation that it is American focused as, sadly, so often things are. But it is – overwhelmingly we’ll say, narrated and commented on, if not totally, I should say – by a range of American trans people. Some proverbial big names, Laverne Cox; and very good name is Susan Stryker, a fantastic historian; Chaz Bono, fair to say the world’s most recognizable in the in terms of the public, trans man just to name a few; Brian Michael Smith; Lilly Wachowski, one of the Wachowski [inaudible] trans twins – no slip intended there – and  it premiered on [sic] at the Sundance Film Festival back in January this year and then Netflix acquired distribution rights and it was released on June 19th so it was made before the current, we’ll say, rightful increase in interest – and there’s it’s very important to note that the film covers trans people but a range thereof – including trans women of colour; trans men; trans men of colour; and of course there is a totally valid increase in interest on that that has occurred in the last six weeks with the increased and much-needed increase in interest, which of course the issue is always been there of Black Lives Matter, which is so important and it is really good. According to Wikipedia it holds a 97 percent approval rating on review aggregator website Rotten Tomatoes; 31 reviews, 7.1/10 weighted average. So I think this you know, is much needed. It’s certainly positive; it looks, as I say, in a very diverse way – I think obviously as I mentioned trans live, [sic] uh trans lives of trans people of colour, really important to talk so much about that – but also, I think it’s good that now it does look at trans men’s issues – both white and people of colour – often they are, those issues get a erased, and for trans men, there can be a huge sense of erasure. If there are you know, I’ll say, challenges with this, it is triggering. I watched it in a reasonably, you know, we’ll say calm state of mind but was still upsetting and frustrating and angering because it does look a lot of things and I’d really you know, that’s where I you know, look at the content warning are if you are planning to watch and I think you can get Netflix free for a month and then cancel it if you want to do that if you can’t afford Netflix on an ongoing basis. So you know in that sense, it’s good, but I think what really needs to happen – with all due respect – is cisgender people need to watch this, because it can move and I have to say I didn’t find out about this doco – or actually it is a movie as it’s listed I should say but it’s a movie/ doco if you like – until a cisgender gay man in Melbourne wrote a Facebook message me and says “I unconditionally apologise for how I’ve spoken to you as trans woman in the past”. Now, I have to be honest, I can’t remember this person mistreating me, but I think it’s very good that someone even if they haven’t would write and say that; if that’s how moving it is, that’s important. So I’d really – if you’re a trans person, you know, if you feel up to having a look, have a look at it, but encourage the cisgender people in your lives to do that, and look at what happens when we are we get mis-cast including by some elements of gay men. The film [that] ticked off trannies with knives, for example, which now, regardless of the controversy around it was apparently considered a poor-quality film that was too long. You know, we need trans people in charge of trans issues including trans media of all sorts. And God knows we could do another Wikipedia if we looked at bad trans media coverage, which again I’m going to link into in around the third segment. The other issue is it is American focused so it ignores other things, and here’s where I’ll raise the content warning just a little, the, [sic] I will call it the physical possibly-sexual assault scene in Crocodile Dundee for example – the first Crocodile Dundee to put that in context – where Mick Dundee has just found out that he, the character,  and I can ever remember her name, Linda Kozlowski is going to marry Richard, he goes and has too many drinks in a New York Bar, and in my opinion physically, if not sexually assaults that character does [sic], a person who is either a drag queen and/ or trans woman, and that doesn’t get a mention. There’s also a film which my dear friend and mentor Julie Peters has mentioned many times called Freebie and the Bean, where – huge content warning here, this is the biggest of this segment – the so-called “hero” of the film decides to murder someone who we’d call trans or gender diverse, you know, just because they’re trans. And Julie talks about when she went to see it in the cinema in the [sic] in the 1970s, how sadly the entire you know, sort of movie was, you know, sort of people in the audience just sort of clapped as if to say, well wasn’t that good and, [sic] and you know sort of it’s a very sort of worrying thing that that sort of thing could happen. Imagine if it was someone decided I’ll just going to murder – and I can use this analogy – someone of Jewish background, the critical reception according to Wikipedia of that one. By the way, Variety calls it “a tasteless comedy about two dumb cops breaking the law”. Oh, I could probably go on there, but I’d better not so yeah lots to consider. I would really urge people to who are up for it to try to watch it, and then you know, think about how you can be a better ally to trans people in your life. But it is good to see it made, I would point out the [sic] part at the end is where we finally in the sort of about the latter part of the 2000’s look at where you know, there’s been more positive and holistic representation of trans and gender diverse people in Hollywood type of stuff, such as Laverne Cox in Orange Is the New Black but of course, we still have the issue to go where people automatically cast well-known cis actors and I have to say once I’ve turned down a consulting role on an Australian film because they just wanted a big name to play the trans character – I wasn’t going to play the character, I just want to wear that woman’s costume, that’s a different thing altogether – but good luck to the actress who now has that great to see a black bi woman – a BBB as someone said – playing that character, I’ll come back to that quickly in the next segment. But yeah, I refused to do it and I don’t care, if any other trans person does that then frankly they’re selling out. The first option needs to go to for trans people to play trans characters, trans women playing trans women and so on. It doesn’t mean that trans people should be typecast in those roles either. They should be able to have a go at anything else, but when for example a cis man plays a trans woman, it just ends up creating the same stereotypes and it is also up to – in my opinion – the people in positions of prominence and influence to start such as casting directors to be aware of their obligations here. I will not compare it to black face, as white person that is not my case, but you just this idea that people can stereotype and mimic another group is not on and you know, it’s sort of it’s not funny either and I’ll come back to that in a later segment as well. So, welcome your thoughts on any of that. If you are tuning in, pop me an email as a or an SMS or tweet away and [sic] have your thoughts about that.

In the meantime, after opening up with the Hoodoo Guru’s Leilani, and I’ve got to say played that, I’ve obviously been a classic Aussie Rock fan is long-suffering listeners of the show will know obviously been aware of that, but I’d never seen the original film clip until a few weeks ago and it’s just [sic] so cute with all the 80’s fashions, I thought I’d better play the song. Anyway, let’s have a listen to someone who I’ll play while playing this song and another one. Here’s the Rosie Burgess Trio and Stack Hat 3CR 855AM, 3CR Digital, 3CR.org.au and 3CR On Demand Out of the Pan with Sally.

[Stack Hat by Rosie Burgess Trio]

Voice-over: I’m Jane Clifton; author, musician, actor, marriage celebrant, author of The Address Book. I’ve always been fond of 3CR, and not just because they played the song by my band Stiletto, Woman in Trouble fifty thousand times, I was grateful for that, but that was a few years ago. Here I am again after all these years and so is 3CR. Still supporting musicians and writers and people with ideas to share. Keep going 3CR!

Voice-over: On Saturday, July 18th between 1:00 and 4:00 pm, 3CR will be broadcasting the Smith Street Dreaming Retrospective, an afternoon looking back over the past seven years of the Smith Street Dreaming Festival. Hosted by Viv Mahler and Dave Arden, past performers, and special community guests will share their stories their history and music of the annual Smith Street Dreaming Festival supported by the Smith Street Working Group, City of Yarra and 3CR Community Radio. This Saturday the 18th at 1pm on your community radio station 3CR. Smith Street Dreaming – one street, many mobs, one community.

Sally Goldner:  3CR 855AM, 3CR digital, 3cr.org.au and 3CR On Demand. Out of the Pan with Sally, first broadcasting noon till 1:00 every Sunday afternoon Australian Eastern Standard Time. Great to have a messaging from Melina. Welcome back Sally. Thank you. Good on you Sally for being authentic and engaging in ugly stereotypes. Yeah, it’s a challenge there Melina. I think it’s one of those ones [sic] and this is going to link into another of the segments I’m going to talk about, Netflix is producing great content. Yes, I have to say I’m a vicarious Netflix watcher of all sorts of things. My housemates have the account, I finally got a digital TV last November, I was using a 1986 tube TV for 34 years or 33 or something, and finally I’ve updated my technology and I’ve finally sub accounted on their Netflix, and I’m now beginning to watch more, but there’s lots of good content and got to give a recommendation for one which has great queer and kink content and that’s Babylon Berlin, which is really awesome. See it right up there with Netflix. Also just been watching Line of Duty, which is a very typically good British drama not so much queer, but certainly very inclusive and you ask why aren’t we seeing this in our own media? Well, this is a good point and I think that maybe we do need an Australian version for example of disclosure, you know, maybe we could get a license from the producers and directors of the American one to do our own version. You’ve recommended a TV series Pose which is broken down barriers with trans activists who are also actors in the show. And yeah, I’ve got to give [sic] over the last few months forgot to mention the fabulous Georgie Stone playing Harrison McKenzie and Neighbours. It’s been a couple of queer themed episodes of Pride party with two characters are sis woman enters hits man in drag being good sports in a cameo by Courtney Act. And then also one where Georgie wrote the script for a hurt you

Where she assisted a parent struggling he was struggling to come to understand the truth having a trans child and that was part of the show. So, yep young children need to see themselves reflected in popular culture. Even if it can be will be too shallow and entertaining. Well, I’m not saying George. She’s I think that’s really well done. I don’t I have to admit. I don’t know pose as a Sony just broken into Netflix who says I’m not up to date with technology. You can and you’re quite right seriously is really important.

So really important here is the segment which I’m sorry also have got just before I go on to something else. What do you give a thank you to Molina for alerting me to something good that happened during the week. We need a bit of that because I’ve got some tough issues to deal with today, but they as a say they do need to be dealt with and that’s valentinus em, I hope sampaio whose

The first transform to be on the cover of Sports Illustrated so slowly breaking new ground and good to have roving reporter listening in as well. Who’s loving the show as well. So great to have you both back listening live and oh, it’s all happening. Okay, Lena has just message me and and I’m going to just hold this message for a bit just because I want to

Think through it a bit hard to say when you will find out where we are because it probably will need a Content warning as well. So the story I wanted to talk about today is one that hasn’t as I said received a lot of culture which I quite find coverage particularly in Australia since and I find that a bit worrying and you can read an article on medium.com, which is the biggest article on it called protocol Butch by a mead is d y e SS and

The here’s where I’ll really raise the content warning overall for this segment. It’s the story of how I was recruited into the gender critical movement. What key players I worked with and how I left. Well, first of all good on you that you got out and say Yes, certainly raise the content here for Content warning here and for gentle transphobia and we’ll say emotional abuse and I mean has said at the start it’s a public interest story. I own all the rights to the messages that appear, but all the same I blacked out names from the actual images so I can

In this article and I me goes on to Sam or whistleblower has been publicly accused of lying and Madness by powerful gender critical woman, and I have the right to present my evidence. The story has been altered to comply with mediums rules, but the original version is archived and available online for journalists in the public. Wow, so Pride 2018, you know, it was marked as marketers lesbian rights to lgbti people.

Apple gender criticals GCS critical of how trans rights impact Women rights, but the certain I’m Amy Says quote unquote. The reality is no one has brought anything to the table that isn’t based in bigotry and quote, you know manipulate goes on to say how GCS is fear mongering and misrepresentations to manipulate us into believing lesbians were under attack and the greater good that our own Greater Community was silence in a raising as well. I disagree with that.

Non-stop criticism of the left postmodern queer culture and lgbtq+ as it’s an American article Publications constant triggering and then she says now I realize we were being used as Pawns in a culture War quote unquote. The goal was to divide our community. She reviewed approximately 30,000 screenshot. She took her time in the GC movement and emotionally difficult task. Well, you’ll get every agreement from trans people on that. I think Amy

She says today, I see the propaganda for what it is. But back then my living situation was unstable. She had to Auto camp sleep in my vehicle to make ends meet and had recently had a window broken while showering at the gym meals were inconsistent city was tired. So she was vulnerable to GC fear. Now, that’s a really good point. This is what in general these sorts of types of organizations do when they have a rigid ideologically ideology that can be emotionally blocked. They take advantage of other people who are emotionally

Honorable, so she Amy said Ties on about how she was looking for work. And then she says that some lesbians have been called turfs trans exclusionary radical feminists simply for being gay. Well, I don’t know about that. That is a name that’s used by someone will not use it. I’m a believer that everyone has a right to be referred to by their own label and if the

Particular group want to call themself radical feminists. So be it and she does compare this to an Evangelical upbringing and you know, sort of we’ve been told was being gay and it was a bad choice and she’s then you can sort of making comparisons and and she then says quote the reason I and other lgbtq+ people ever supported GCSE and groups like The LGB Alliance the mysterious

Healthy balance. We’re here where people don’t seem to name themselves for publicly identify themself. Well, if you’re so courageous and fighting back, why can’t you do that? Well, she says the reason she ever supported these sorts of groups because she was told it was not okay to be gay. Now. We had a terrible situation earlier this year in Australia on this so very very true that that is what can happen and

So thankfully has seen through this. It’s a very very long article and gender critics find what makes you angry and then get on board with more of their ideas. Well, let’s just take it change the word angry to another emotion fearful or something. Look at the fear that fundamentalist Christians. Whip up in relation to the bathroom debate. And remember that there is an absolute quote where one fundamentalist Christian group has set out right that it was a concoction. They fabricated to whip up emotion. So let’s try to look at the issues calmly and I’m going to go and I’m going to link that into the next segment then radical feminists and after Ellen had influenced Amy, and now she knows it was most likely she names the person. I’m only quoting the article Jocelyn McDonald’s influence as assistant editor. She’s a robot. Jocelyn is a radical feminist who supports wolf women’s Liberation Front, but it’s an organization that claims to be fair.

This but works with far-right groups who are going to women and LGBT rights. Wow, I’m not surprised and I know there’s a trans person who I might get on the show to who analyzes this. I won’t I’m that person without their consent. Although they probably know who they are just to be safe. She was recruited. Amy was recruited by someone else and then when Amy was recruited by someone else see love bombed me and constantly send me upsetting social media.

It’s to keep me triggered riped several women into a media wall. Wow, criticized good lgbtiq Publications such as pink news Auto straddle and others. So on it goes and it’s interesting that the editor-in-chief of after L and has recently stepped down after Amy has published her allegation. So this is incredibly courageous to bring all this out and she goes on to talk about with

Owens Liberation Front and the he then goes on to say that many of the women who involved in a story who she’s making her claims about have chosen to openly mock me instead of coming out to support me and be are quite some of the messages but without names there are pictures of them on this article and there’s many other things where she goes on about this in some detail.

And yeah sort of and also lots of other propaganda that she puts here that I won’t mention. I’ll definitely say be in a good frame of mind have supports if you’re someone who’s a bit vulnerable and wants to read this. But again, I know I need the real sis allies to read this as well. And so there’s a lot of evidence given on this and on it goes and

And so G then criticizes a well-known also say UK feminist. You can read the article. I’m going to play safe for the my sake and the sake of 3CR and not mention it but probably people will know who I mean, so she met up with people from the LGB Alliance, which is interesting and then she got criticized and then she began to realize what

Came now this well-known UK feminist called a me delusional intact are integrity and mental health and gas-lit me tried to claim. We would never connected even though there’s tweets here. She has the right to so since he’s publicly challenged me prove been the person is lying and being abusive towards me. So there’s plenty of evidence you this is, you know, very unintended it’s almost like the best undercover investigation we could get

It and so she has realized the error of her ways now. I I think I could go on but I think that’s more than enough, you know sort of, you know, she’s also good work. I hear Amy she ends by saying I’ve been challenging myself talking to a lot of people and trans Community some topics. I won’t talk about yes debt since way. I haven’t had time to properly research them very good. You know, I think that, you know to be an ally you need to be informed you can have some broad brushstroke.

Sybil’s of walking beside people that sort of thing but really really important and she also says quite compassionately in my opinion quite I hope to the gender critical types who are reading this quote. I hope you pay attention to the red flags. You’ve been seeing and find your way out. It’s okay to talk about concerns with empathy. If you have a friend trying to take care help you get out take that hand because that’s love we can stop our real opponents together very courageous stuff and you

Can look for a me on Twitter. I just think that’s incredibly courageous to speak out against these sorts of powerful intimidated timid a tree. Oh, I better say to be fair. Allegedly Intimidator e types of behave people and their behaviors. So really well done to Amy for doing that. Welcome your thoughts as I’ll play another track and we’ll have a have a listen in the meantime had another message.

From roving reporter Melina is right about pose. It’s a fantastic series good to be back in touch with you roving. Billy Porter is wonderful, and he did a great song with the cast recently on YouTube. So yes, I need to get up to date with my technology and find these things. So yeah really good to see so welcome your thoughts on this and I’ll have a good read of cut lines message that I just wanted to check in through first whilst we have a listen to another track.

If I can hopefully have it loaded up correctly. It is the church and a classic because we are all under the Milky Way 3CR C R8 V 5A m3c our Digital 3CR Dot org dot EU and 3CR On Demand Out of the Pan with Sally that is not the church as much as we love the angels. I knew I was having one of those days live radio. It’s good to have it back.

And we’ll keep rolling along. So yeah, please love welcome your interaction great to have the crew in or connecting in with me today. But and you thank you to those who I’ll say Brave to that segment not easy content. Anyway, here we go. Now with the church 3CR 855Am, 3CR digital 3CR dot org.au  3CR our on-demand Out of the Pan with Sally.

Church under the Milky Way

3CR, 8 5 5Am 3c R, digital 3CR dot org dot AU and 3CR on-demand Out of the Pan with Sally first broadcasting noon To one every Sunday afternoon. Thanks for your company. We just heard from the church from Under the Milky Way from a 2-cd set put your glasses on Sally and pull the right CD out of the case when you’re playing it anyway and a bonus bit of the Angels take a long line as well live radio. It’s good to have it back look just for a little and just the other two songs were played today are Rosy bird just Trio and stack hat and also,

We heard the start of the show from the Hoodoo Gurus Leilani and Kayleen has acknowledged great songs and said important show and also Melina said hi to roving reporter. See this is community radio in action live. I love it. Now. I wanted to talk about what Caitlyn said having a chance to read and I will say I’m pretty high content warning here in relation to what I was mentioning about Crocodile Dundee. I’ll read this out sort of in words.

And as written someone close to me that Kayleen don’t want to go into detail reader connection is ex-army and wound up going into a pub in drag to try to help catch a rapist caught by others won’t say what nation this was in and was groped as the character in Crocodile Dundee was he was laughing about it when telling me about it is one of his War Stories. He still has scars from the injuries when I quietly mentioned that I Kayleen said mentioned that I that was one of the reasons I don’t go to pubs and he was shocked into silence but has been extremely supportive since you can mention this on air if you wish also for the show Caitlin says quote unquote perhaps I mentioned that I have had personal experiences similar to the sexual assault in Crocodile Dundee. So I know so I’m really genuinely obviously saddened to hear that and I can say that I’ve had another one. It was actually at a now defunct. I would hasten to add gay venue from the late 90s early 2000s not far from the three C R Studios on Peel Street but no not I’d better say not the peel. Although I had actually have had someone put my hand there hand on my leg there without consent but that was you know, it’s sad that we have to try to minimize their experiences of these things in that way. But yeah, I’ve had that happen as well and worse.

 So this is one of those coincidences that when I plan to show where I get to the third segment, there’s been a lot of talk in the last few weeks and then about I will just say an author someone who’s very well known and very prominent. I don’t real I’m not going to give that author’s name because they’ve got enough publicity. But in the last week, this is where it all ties in together anyone to think this show is planned and once in a while you’d be right. There’s been all this talk about that author and others talking about cancel culture and it’s interesting to see articles in the conversation in the opinion comments of today’s age and also quite a well-known liberal  politician who is relevant in a way to this show has come out supporting the letter criticizing cancel culture. Well, first of all can someone Define cancel culture and let’s also defined social engineering and politically correct and all the rest of it. Yeah. There’s got to be, you know, people talk about freedom of speech we hear a lot about Freedom. The other side of the coin is responsibility. I was brought up risk of sounding like a old chook in a pansexual.

Seriously, I was brought up with the idea of take responsibility for your choices. Think about the consequences of your actions. And when freedom and responsibility are in roughly equal balance is where we get the best results and if people were taking responsibility, maybe we’d actually we’d rather not have hate speech or we’d have talked about issues in ways that are hopefully in good process and this is where I take issue with the emotive, but largely meaningless term that is cancel culture.

Er so what we’re saying is trans people shouldn’t stand up for ourselves. Is that what we’re saying by cancel culture? We don’t have a right to have our own opinions. I was once criticized by a prominent ex AFL player after listening to that person’s garbage for you saying, okay, let them have an opinion but don’t give them any publicity and I think it comes to that point with some individuals, you know, we all make slips on all sorts of issues. We have unconscious bias or we make honest mistakes. We can’t know everything about everything when it comes to anything including aspects of diversity and what do we do? We learn from it a few weeks ago. I had the pleasure of being online with a seminar an education session hosted by Jess Mattar and Jax Jackie Brown from Drummond Street Services. Of course, they do other great things in the community. I’d well been aware of for a long time the idea when it comes to diversity of being curious and open to learning and they said took it further and say be curious not Furious.

I really like that approach if someone says hey have you stopped and thought about what you’re saying don’t have a hissy fit try to learn and do better. That’s how I would have thought growth was the human condition. So so I think that’s where we need to go. Now. It’s all very well. Sometimes we hear another cliche which is sort of…Sorry just being distracted that I need to top up the SMS. Sorry roving. I’m hopefully we’ve got enough to get through today. And roving has said pose is a fantastic show. But seriously, I’ve totally lost my train of thought that’s live radio, but I’m going to do it this way, you know, it’s all very well to talk about cancel culture and freedom, but also we sometimes he cliches. Oh, that’s right about we need to debate these issues.

Who’s debating with whom and what and how you know when fabrications like bathroom debates and made up and then we’re told we have to debate them and we can’t put the issue safe for Trans people on the map. What are the real issues? We face having documentation that reflects who we are quality healthcare in both generalist and specialized ways the huge out-of-pocket including say the huge out-of-pocket costs for strands surgeries in Australia that for both assigned male and assigned female.

You know, it’s all very well to for someone else to define the debate. What about the issues like in terms of process? Like when trans issues are discussed on a certain Monday night television show and there’s no trans people. There’s only fundamentalist Christians and radical feminists or there’s one chance person who is swamped or we’re constantly having to be interrogated for our views, but the views of those who would disagree with this. I’m not interrogated. So these simplistic sloganss like cancel culture need to be called out and you know, we need to have good process for these debates and take responsibility. And I think that when people take responsibility something good happens. We stop worrying about the right to an opinion and we start worrying about which opinions are right and that’s what really matters and it is time that we did more of that than you know, sort of having these meaningless abstract debates about the right to an opinion. So got it. I have to say that because I’m just I have to say as a longtime advocate for 25 years since I’ve been out the same old issues come up they’re all baseless. And then when do we get a chance to do this? Well, as I have been approached in doing some media about some that author I’ve said well, I’ve said to the media who interviewed me and you know, thank them for the opportunity. I said can we stay in touch so we can proactively put our issues on board and I’d say to any ends person if we are lucky I almost have to say sarcastically if we’re lucky enough to be approached about these issues then then let’s say hey media do something balancing. I’ll give credit where it’s due. There’s been a lot of criticism of the Guardian in the UK specifically for not covering trans issues will finally they’ve given a an opinion piece and there’s no comments allowed on it to a trans person and that’s the first I’ve seen that in a long time and thinking

Of the interview I’ve had played twice this year with c n Lester. I know that they have had those issues. So maybe at least there’s a bit of balance coming back in. All right shows just about running out of time got one of them bit more to cover. So just have a quick couple of quick messages and then come back for the last track and wrap it all up 3CR C R8 55 M 3 C R digital 3CR dot-org w3c our on-demand Out of the Pan with Sally.

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Just got a couple of minutes left on the show on 3CR 855AM our Digital 3 co.org w3CRc our on-demand Out of the Pan along with Sally and that’s Dimension that on Thursday night. I went to a zoo as you do in this day and age and had with globe for their monthly meeting Globe which originally stood for Gays and lesbians of business and Enterprise because that was the snazzy acronym we could use but is covering doing its best to expand in its diversity on Trend and declaring the interest as a bisexual Alliance committee and doubly declaring the interest as Treasurer yours truly was along with praise and vice-president Rebecca and James Globe granted a small Grant to bisexual Alliance Victoria for the to redevelop our website which needs a bit of an update and a

Amp and a take to and all that sort of thing. So well, thank you globe and alsoTranscend and Out for Australia got were organizations that got Awards, which is really cool and lots of other good individuals check out Globe Melbourne. So thank you very much great networking using the breakout rooms as we do in this day and age and also had some musical stuff fun. And that’s where I’m going to close the show today just because we have been a little heavy.

Let’s lighten it up the Tuck Shop. Ladies, who are Rosy Burgess from The Rosy Burgess Trio who we had earlier and Sam Lows who used to be in Fruit two, wonderful women musician musicians, and actually I’ve assumed their gender identity. I don’t know how they identify but certainly a part of will say the I’ll say the women and or queer music scene in Melbourne. So really good to see that very quickly had messages in roving as I said, not that certain person again, I’m not going to mention their name.

And roving says quote. I think it’s an excuse to be a self-indulgent middle-class white gay male man who wants to maintain it being a career as politician. It’s also about not recognizing our own privilege status as well in I’m going to agree with that. Let’s face it. Yes, and Kayleen has also given me a here here for the last segment also mentioned great songs and an important show think you and thanks Melina.

Yes, we’re just going to get to you as we click seeing a lot of Millennials supportive on trans issues to special on podcast with younger queer people of my generation. How do you think mental health will impact our community during this lockdown? That’s a show in itself. I’d better leave that for another time. There is plenty going on on that. Don’t forget trans demick the podcast the Australian made one that looks at trans issues. Am I being used as the token trans person know there’s been a range of good commentary Hayden Moon a Sydney based young trans person got a good piece in this week as well. And yes friend of that author who was trans from the IPA. Where are they now? Will we don’t I don’t know I’ll research that during the week. Anyway better get out of here and just play a couple of minutes of the fun. That is the Tuck Shop ladies. Thanks for tuning in. Thanks Molina kaeleen and roving for your contributions during the show this week. Great to be with you again live. I’m Sally goldner. Catch you next week.

Song lyrics

People of the world one time maybe two times. I’d like to put my cell phone in your glove box if you know what I mean. Do you know what I mean? I’d like to put my spanner in it’ll walk if you know what I mean. Do you know what I mean? It’s you fuck isn’t you fuck isn’t you fuck is mmm

What are they talking about? I know I’d like to put my 20 in your coins lock if you know what I mean. Do you know what I mean? I’d like to put my light on you superpose two groups can be here if you know what I mean. I hope you know what I mean. It’s you fuck you. Fuck you fuck.

I’d like to put my rub into your except if you know what I mean. Do you know what I mean? I’d like to put my saddle on your horse back if you know what I mean. I think you know what I mean.